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CBS alumni and management consultant Oscar visited our course, Stress, shame and leadership, to share the main points he took from the course four years ago and how he uses these today as a management consultant.

The power of seeing well-being from a bird’s eye view

“I really think it was the one of the greatest learnings from my time at CBS. To become aware and understand how stress and well-being is more than just an individual phenomenon, but rather is intertwined with organizational conditions and contradictory demands. I mean, the fact that two people can react differently to the same stressful situation is a clear signal to me that there is more than meets the eye when it comes to tackling stress. It also means that the same leadership response may not work for everyone. Leaders need to remain curious about what each person requires, while also paying attention to the relationships and organizational conditions surrounding the situation.”

Oscar continued to explain how the competence to recognize patterns has been a massive strength in his career after graduating from CBS. “The capacity to draw patterns between both employee and employer behavior as well as in the often counterproductive, contradictory demands that the broader organization put on its members, taking a bird’s eye view on the sensitive problems has been key to me.”

Confronting the paradox: when the idea of individual performance challenges organizational learning

Oscar went on to reflect on a central paradox in many of today’s organisations. The very systems designed to strengthen performance may inadvertently inhibit the openness upon which sustainable performance depends. If uncertainty, limitations, and concerns are reduced to signs of individual inadequacy, they are more likely to remain unspoken. As a result, organisations risk losing valuable insight into the conditions shaping both people’s well-being and ability to perform.

For Oscar, relational well-being therefore requires more than supporting individuals in managing pressure. It also depends on professional relationships in which difficult matters can be voiced and explored before they develop into larger problems. This requires leaders to be attentive not only to what people say, but also to the emotions and reactions that may signal tensions within their relationships or working conditions. He emphasized that leaders carry a particular responsibility for creating the conditions for such dialogue, while employees can contribute by leading upwards and bringing otherwise overlooked dynamics into view, enabling the organisation to learn and develop more sustainable ways of working.

Study groups is a great training ground for learning how to “choose me”

Reflecting on how he experienced similar situations during his studies, Oscar added: “You know the context of the study group and the classical situation of not meeting a deadline. Almost intuitively, we tend to point fingers at the one person who inevitably caused the delay – but what about all the surrounding stuff? How about asking questions like “did we plan in the right way? Did we built the right relationships and bonds between each other to be able to communicate well?” I think there is so much worth in trying to unfold the process and the surrounding factors before we evaluate the individual performance. The constant evaluation around us is very real, but if we fly up and get a greater perspective, we have a chance to understand ourselves better”

Interestingly, we started the class by listening to Kendrick Lamar’s song “Mirror” in which Kendrick reflects on all the conflicting demands and expectations he faces as both a superstar and a complex human. By the end of the song he says “sorry I didn’t save the world, my friend, I was too busy buildin’ mine up again” and then returns to a newfound self-understanding, repeating the chorus “I choose me, I’m sorry”. In the world of constant evaluation, young students and the newly employed risks taking responsibility for something that is structurally produced, but maybe our best chance at finding resolve is taking careful stock of all the conditions we are surrounded with and giving them a name?

Max Brix Bendtsen, intern.

Read the Danish version here.

During the summer, my class and I were informed that we would be doing an internship in week 47. We tried to find internship placements. Some of my classmates were placed in kindergartens, nurseries, or other public institutions, while others were interning with journalists, authors, or in other fields. Through my parents, I knew Pernille Steen Pedersen, whom I had spoken to a few times before. We had spoken about my interests in history, writing, leadership, and a bit of politics. The last time we spoke, I had told her about my internship, and Pernille immediately showed interest, suggesting that I consider doing my internship with her. I told her I would need some time to think it over. A week or maybe two passed as I continued searching for internship opportunities. While I was sitting and looking, I suddenly remembered Pernille. I sent her an email asking about an internship at the CBS Well-Being Lab. I received an almost immediate reply, and my internship was secured.

As November approached (week 47, 17-23 Nov.), I received an email outlining my tasks for the week. On the first day, Pernille was scheduled to give a presentation at the Danish Film School to the new cohort of students about her research on well-being and leadership. I took the bus early in the morning from Dragør to the Opera at Fabrikmestervej. I arrived at the school, sat down, and waited for Pernille to arrive, where I was introduced to her students who had come with her for the presentation. Pernille arrived with great energy and enthusiasm, of course, and we all entered a cinema hall with the typical red movie seats and a large screen. I had brought a notebook, my phone, and a pen to take notes and photos. One of the Film School’s lecturers stood up on stage and introduced Pernille to the school. After that, Pernille took the floor. To begin, she played the song “The Times They Are a-Changin’” by Bob Dylan to set the tone. The song is about progress in life and how the world around us changes. We listened to the first minute of it, and right there, you could feel the atmosphere shift in the room. There was a certain awareness floating around among the students at the school. It captured everyone’s attention.

Pernille introduced the topic of leadership. Leadership is crucial in the film industry. Every film needs a director, a loyal and capable leader, to guide the actors and producers through the confusing and difficult task of making a film. Since the beginning of human communication, the world has had leaders and guides. Today, leadership is an integral part of our daily lives, in businesses, sports, and the world of music. The most important ideal of a leader is their connection with their employees. Without this connection, leadership cannot function, and the entire organization will fall apart, with each part heading in a different direction. Just like in an orchestra, where every musician has a conductor, the leader. The conductor must determine the tempo, melody, tone, and pitch. Without the conductor, an orchestra would collapse, and none of the musicians would know what to play. However, the conductor must also listen to each musician. If the violinist is unable to play their solo, the entire performance will fall apart. Not only will the violinist be unable to play their solo, but they may also feel ashamed for not meeting the expectations set by the conductor.

Leaders must, therefore, listen to their employees and, importantly, understand their needs and problems by asking questions and showing genuine interest. It doesn’t take much: “How has your day been?” or “What are you doing this weekend?” The smallest gestures can make an employee feel safer and more engaged in their work. Every employee has their preferred form of leadership, and how leadership is structured in a company may not suit everyone equally. Some employees need to be left alone to think, while others require moral support from their boss. The leader must also understand the daily lives of their employees and view things from their perspective. The leader should be someone the employee feels comfortable approaching if there are any issues or difficulties. In short, the leader should be the corporal – “[…] a corporal must remain neutral and equal!” – of the company. If a leader fails to perform as described, in my view, they are not a worthy leader, both based on the knowledge I gained from the presentation and my own personal beliefs. It should also be noted that there is no perfect leader, and there never will be. Great and famous leaders like Winston Churchill, Abraham Lincoln, Frederik VI, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, Martin Luther King Jr., etc. – in my personal opinion – were not perfect, either politically or socially.

During the presentation, Pernille referenced various artists and philosophers as examples, which further inspired me in the field of leadership, more so than I had been before. One of the first examples she shared was the words of the Portuguese-Jewish philosopher Baruch “de” Spinoza:

“Philosophers conceive the affects by which we’re torn as vices, which men fall into by their own fault. That’s why they usually laugh at them, weep over them, censure them, or curse them. They conceive men not as they are, but as they want them to be. That’s for the most part they’ve written Satire instead of Ethics.”

This helped with understanding the world around us and what is expected of each individual in the broader world, which can be linked to the song that was played at the start. The individual can easily see the world differently from how it actually is, influenced by everything from social media to one’s own teachers. It is important, especially for young people, to have a clearer view of how the world functions, as it is the next generation that will go out and experience the reality of the world. Pernille also mentioned an important point to remember: the world is vastly different for older generations – those 29 years old and up – compared to previous times. However, there will always be changes from generation to generation, but our generation, “Generation Z,” is entirely different. Everything from social media to modern entertainment has transformed our world, and we are the so-called “guinea pigs” who are going out to test it. Today, we need to be prepared to perform in ways that were unthinkable 20 years ago. This puts pressure on employees, especially when a leader is unaware of what is happening or has insufficient interest in their employees, and it becomes particularly problematic when young people, who may have only worked in a supermarket, enter a workplace with poor leadership. This leads to stress among employees, and when an employee cannot meet their leader’s demands, they may feel ashamed. Therefore – as reiterated – a leader’s genuine interest is crucial for the functioning of a company’s workforce.

During the session, two of Pernille’s students, Maja Høgdal Dudzinski and Nanna Josefine Lützen Faaborg, shared their own experiences with stress, shame, and leadership with the audience. The audience found it very interesting to hear two people of their own age share their experiences, and it made it much easier for them to put things into perspective. After this, the students listened to an audio clip from a podcast released by the CBS Well-Being Lab, featuring singer Nicklas Sahl and actor Thure Lindhardt: The Art of Stepping into Someone’s Shoes. Pernille also brought along dialogue cards with different questions. The participants were divided into groups and given a stack of dialogue cards. Each card had a question at the top, and at the bottom, ways to respond. The students found it very engaging, and most wished they had more time for the activity. However, as the game eventually had to end, everyone gathered in the hall, and Pernille concluded her presentation. The students were also asked: “How did you find participating in this workshop?” In total, we received 49 responses, one from each student, and there was not a single negative or dissatisfied response. Both the instructors and I thought it was an absolutely fantastic presentation. I also interviewed Pernille about this report, which further inspired me. I believe this has been a wonderful week, and I would definitely recommend doing an internship with Pernille at the CBS Well-Being Lab.

Max Brix Bendtsen, praktikant.

Her i sommers fik min klasse og jeg at vide, at vi skulle i praktik i uge 47. Vi forsøgte at finde praktikpladser. Nogle skulle i børnehaver, vuggestuer eller andre offentlige institutioner, og andre i praktik hos journalister, forfattere eller andet. Gennem mine forældre kendte jeg Pernille Steen Pedersen, som jeg havde talt med et par gange. Vi havde talt om min interesse for historie, skrivning, ledelse og lidt politik. Den seneste gang jeg talte med hende, havde jeg fortalt hende lidt om min praktik, og Pernille blev med det samme interesseret og foreslog mig, om jeg kunne tænke mig at komme i praktik hos hende. Jeg fortalte hende, at jeg skulle bruge lidt tid til at tænke over det. Der gik en uge, måske to, og jeg ledte efter praktikpladser. Mens jeg sad og ledte, kom jeg i tanke om Pernille. Jeg skrev en mail til Pernille og spurgte om en praktikplads på CBS Well-Being Lab. Jeg fik næsten med det samme et svar, og jeg fik min praktikplads. November nærmede sig (uge 47, 17-23. nov.), og jeg fik en mail om, hvad jeg skulle lave i ugen.

Den første dag skulle Pernille holde et oplæg på Den Danske Filmskole til den nye årgangs elever om hendes forskning i trvisel og ledelse. Jeg tog bussen fra Dragør tidligt om morgenen til Operaen på Fabrikmestervej. Jeg sætter mig ind på skolen og venter på Pernille og bliver introduceret til hendes studerende, som Pernille har taget med til oplægget. Pernille ankommer på skolen med fuld fart på og i højt humør selvfølgelig, og vi sætter os ind i en biografsal med de typiske røde biografsæder og en storskærm. Jeg har taget en notesbog, min telefon og kuglepen med til at tage noter og fotos. En af filmskolens lærere stiller sig op på scenen og introducerer Pernille til skolen. Efter det får Pernille ordet. Til at starte med sætter hun sangen ”The times they are changing” af Bob Dylan, for at skabe en vis stemning. Sangen omhandler fremskridt i livet, og verden omkring en bliver anderledes. Vi hører det første minut af den, bare der kan man mærke, lokalet skifter. Der suser en vidst bevidsthed rundt i lokalet og de studerende på skolen. Det fangede alles opmærksomhed.

Pernille introducerede emnet ledelse. Ledelse er vigtigt, når det kommer til film. Hver film skal have en instruktør, en trofast og god leder, som skal guide filmens skuespillere og producere gennem den forvirrende og svære opgave for at lave en film. Lige siden mennesker begyndte at kommunikere, har verden haft ledere og førere. Ikke mindst i dag fylder ledelse en stor del af vores hverdag i både virksomheder, sport og musikkens verden. Det vigtigste ideal for en leder er sin sammenhæng med sine medarbejdere. Uden denne sammenhæng kan ledelsen ikke fungere, og hele virksomheden vil brase sammen i tusinde stykker, hvor hvert stykke går i hver sin retning. Ligesom i et orkester har hver især en dirigent, lederen. Dirigenten skal bestemme tempoet, melodien, tonen og højden. Uden dirigenten ville et orkester kollapse, og ingen af musikerne vidste, hvad de skulle spille. Men dirigenten skal også lytte til den enkelte musiker, for hvis violinisten ikke kan spille sin solo, så går det hele kaput. Ikke mindst kan violinisten ikke spille sin solo, men violinisten føler sig skammet over ikke at kunne leve op til de krav, som dirigenten har givet.

Ledere skal derfor give øre til deres ansatte og ikke mindst blive klogere på deres ansattes behov og problemer ved at spørge ind og interessere sig for de ansatte. Det tager ikke særlig lang tid at udmærke: “Hvordan har din dag gået” eller “hvad skal du i weekenden”. De mindste sager kan få en ansat til at føle sig mere tryg og engageret i sit arbejde. Hver ansat har sin prioriterede form for ledelse, og hvordan ledelsen nu er i den virksomhed, som den ansatte befinder sig i, kan ikke gavne alle lige meget. Nogle ansatte har brug for at være i fred og tænke i sig selv, og andre har behov for moralsk støtte fra sin chef. Lederen skal også sætte sig ind i de ansattes hverdag og se fra deres vinkler. Lederen skal fremstå som en tryg person, som en ansat altid kan henvise sig til, hvis der er problemer eller besvær. Kort sagt, så skal lederen være korporalen – ”[…] en korporal skal holde sig neutral og ligestillet!” – af virksomheden.

Hvis en leder ikke kan præstere som beskrevet på disse punkter, er han/hun i mine øjne en ikke værdig leder, efter både den viden jeg har fået af oplægget, men også egen personlig holdning. Det skal også noteres, at der eksisterer ikke en perfekt leder, og det kommer der aldrig til at gøre. Store og berømte ledere som Winston Churchill, Abraham Lincoln, Frederik VI, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, Martin Luther King Jr. osv. – efter mine egne personlige holdninger – var ikke perfekt, hverken politisk eller socialt. Under oplægget brugte Pernille flere kunstnere og filosoffer som eksempler, som også har inspireret mig endnu mere i ledelse, end jeg førhen har været.

Pernille brugte som en af de første gode eksempler portugisisk-jødiske filosof, Baruch ”de” Spinozas ord: “Philosophers conceive the affects by which we’re torn as vices, which men fall into by their own fault. That’s why they usually laugh at them, weep over them, censure them, or curse them. They conceive men not as they are, but as they want them to be. That’s for the most part they’ve written Satire instead of Ethics.” Det hjalp med forståelsen af den verden, som er omkring os, og hvad der bliver forventet af det enkelte individ i den store verden, som man kan reflektere til sangen, der blev spillet til at starte med. Det enkelte individ kan nemt se verden anderledes end den faktisk er, og det kan komme fra alt fra de sociale medier og fra ens egen underviser. Det er vigtigt, især unge, får et blik på, hvordan verden fungerer, da det er den næste generation, som skal ud at opleve verdens realitet. Pernille kom også ind på en vigtig ting at huske. Verden er helt anderledes for de ældre – 29-årige og op ad – generationer, end den har været før. Dog vil der altid være ændringer fra generation til generation, men vor generation, ”Generation Z”, som den også kaldes, er helt anderledes. Alt fra de sociale medier til den moderne underholdning har ændret på vor verden, og vi er de såkaldte ”prøve hamstere”, som skal ud at teste det. I dag skal vi være klar på at præstere helt anderledes, end for 20 år siden. Det presser ansatte i firmaerne, især hvis en leder ikke har styr på hvad der foregår og ikke har nok interesse for sine ansatte, og det bliver især et problem når unge, som måske kun har erfaring fra et arbejde i et supermarked, kommer ind på en arbejdsplads med dårlig ledelse. Det fører til stress blandt de ansatte, og når en ansat ikke kan leve op til sin leders krav, kan den ansatte føle sig skammet. Derfor – som nævnes på ny – er en leders interesse enormt vigtigt for driften af virksomhedens ansatte.

Undervejs kommer 2 af Pernilles studerende op, Maja Høgdal Dudzinski og Nanna Josefine Lützen Faaborg og fortæller deres egne erfaringer om stress, skam og ledelse til publikummet. Publikum fandt det meget interessant at høre 2 mennesker på deres egen alder fortælle om deres erfaringer, og det blev klart lettere for dem at perspektivere. Efter det, hørte de studerende noget lyd fra en podcast, som CBS well-being Lab har udgivet med sangeren Nicklas Sahl og skuespilleren Thure Lindhardt: kunsten i at træde i menneske. Pernille havde også medbragt dialogkort, som var med forskellige spørgsmål. Spillerne skulle fordele sig i grupper og fik hver en stak dialogkort med. På hvert dialogkort befandt spørgsmålet, som stod øverst, og forneden, måder at reagere på. De studerende fandt det meget spændende, og de fleste ville have ønsket, at de havde mere tid. Dog skulle spillet jo eventuelt slutte, og efter samledes folk i salen, og Pernille rundede sit oplæg af. De studerende blev også spurgt: “Hvordan har det været at deltage i denne workshop?” I alt fik vi 49 svar, en fra hver elev, og der var ikke et eneste negativt eller utilfreds svar.

Både underviserne og jeg syntes helt klart, at det var et fantastisk oplæg. Jeg har også interviewet Pernille om denne rapport, som også har inspireret mig. Jeg synes, at det har været en fantastisk uge, og jeg vil helt klart anbefale at komme i praktik her hos Pernille i CBS Well-being Lab.